Thanks for a nice reply "name1"!
My reply here got aggressive again, it seems like that is
inevitable haha. I would very much appreciate an answer to this post as well.
Ps. "name2", this builds up my previous argument you are to talk to you dad
about, so take this into consideration as well :)
You start by claiming to be confused by why I find God’s
actions shockingly cruel. If you try to see it from my perspective, it becomes
quite obvious why I find him cruel. I will try to make it very clear to you
why, and I will be surprised if you are able to read all this without agreeing
that something is iffy.
Genesis 6:6-7 (New International Version (NIV) ):
“6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the
earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from
the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals,
the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have
made them.”
Ignoring the problem with an omnipotent God regretting
something, any omnipotent ‘thing’ should NEVER kill the whole population of a
planet. It is wrong in so many ways, and it cannot be justified. It is also
most definitely not an action worthy of any worship by anyone.
Furthermore the list of God commanding to kill for various
reasons is very long, and I won’t quote them, but I’ll give you the source of
it. I went through all of them and checked them up against the version of the
bible that you are reading – they are really there for you to see yourself:
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12
NIV)
Kill All Who Have Sexual Relationships With Animals (Exodus
22:19 NIV)
Kill Witches (Exodus 22:18 NIV)
Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27 NIV)
Death for Attacking Parents (Exodus 21:15 NIV)
Death for Cursing Parents (Leviticus 20:9 NIV)
Death for Adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NIV)
Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9 NIV)
Kill Nonbelievers (2 Chronicles 15:13 NIV)
Kill False Prophets (Zechariah 13:3 NIV) & (Deuteronomy
13:1-5 NIV) & (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NIV)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
(Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NIV)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
(Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NIV)
Kill Followers of Other Religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NIV)
& (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NIV)
Death for Blasphemy (Leviticus 24:10-16 NIV)
Infidels and Gays Should Die (Romans 1:24-32 NIV) &
(Leviticus 20:13 NIV)
Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle (Numbers 1:48-51
NIV)
Kill People for Working on Sabbath Day (REALLY??)(Exodus
31:12-15 NIV)
If the bible is God’s word, then based on all his commands
of killing it cannot be that God is all-loving. So even if God was to exist, I
would simply not care about his morals because I know that my human morals are
superior to his. I would not kill people for such pathetic reasons as presented
by your God, and if I was all-powerful as he is claimed to be I would stop this
from ever happening as it is morally wrong. Do you agree with your God on all
the justifications to kill mentioned above? If you do then you will be
considered a horrible person in today's society. That is why I have just as
much respect for your God that I would have for any random person holding these
views because they are morally incorrect. I would be very surprised if it
actually is such that killing people for working on a Sabbath Day is beneficial
for the greater good, and I laugh of the thought of it. I am not saying that
the existence of this evil is proof that God does not exist. This is only
proving the God you believe in is a limited God, not all-knowing, all-powerful
or all-loving, thus resulting in that the question of if he exists or not is a
question we should simply not care about because we are better than that God.
I find several problems regarding your focus on free will
being the source of this evil. Here I have presented commands from God, and I
will use the one that says “Kill nonbelievers” or “people who follow other
gods” as an example. If you through some sort of medium got a message from God
saying “Kill Magnus, because he is a nonbeliever”. Based on the bible it is not
unlikely that that will happen, as God has commanded people to kill countless
times. What would you feel if you got that message? Would you kill me? Would
you agree with your God that I do deserve to die? (I hope not). But surly a command
from God is something you would not say no to, and furthermore by God
commanding you to do anything is to remove your free will, which is supposed to
be valued very high by God.
Regarding your "name2"and his mom’s example; let me put a
twist on it. “A women has a Child, his name is "name2". She loves this child and
will do anything to protect him. "name2" is a nice kid, and her mom wants her son
to be able to do what he wants. So among other things, "name2" receives a gun by
his mom. "name2" then killed a man at the age of 8. Despite killing, "name2" is not
guilty, and we blame the creator of "name2", who is his mother, and we call her
evil for giving her son a weapon, and throw her in Jail. The end.” That is more
how I visualize the God and human relationship. God gave us evil, aka “the
gun”, to play with and the free will to do whatever we want with that evil. But
“luckily” we don’t have to be concern about the aftermath of what we do with
the gun, because we know that whatever sinful thing we do, we will always be
forgiven through Jesus. I have huge problems with this as well, because
personally, what decides what I find right to do or not is how my actions
affect either myself, people around me, society as a whole or nature, and
whenever I do something wrong I have to be punished in a reasonable way such
that I learn to be a better person. Christians don’t have to have that mindset,
as they know that they will be forgiven for whatever they do and no punishment
is required and no lesson has to be learned. If it was not for the society we
have today to control people, the Christians could in theory do whatever they
want without any fear of any punishment. I am sorry to say it, but religion
hold the power to poison minds to the extent that it is a threat to a sustainable
society
This got long as well. I want to end it by saying that I do
not discuss all this because I feel an urge to win my debate. I do not care who
wins the debate. The only thing I am concerned about is acquiring the truth. In
fact, I hope that I am wrong and that you are right "name1", because I would
find it extremely cool, fascinating and rewarding if you were to be right and
Christianity's God does exist. But unfortunately deeper investigation on the
matter has shown me that so far, the current view I have is the view most
likely to be true.
I may not have been clear enough. I do not say that Christians don't care about what they do, they HAVE to care just as the rest of us as it is built into our genetic code such that our actions are beneficial for society. That has been developed through natural selection. There are individual exceptions of course. What I am saying is that if it was not for the moral code we all have regardless religion, Christians could in theory do whatever they want without fear of punishment.
ReplyDeleteThe scary part is that if you want to truly follow Jesus, one should follow the "laws" given which is to basically kill close to 100% of the world population. Majority of them because they worship false God, but also because they are homosexual, nonbelievers etc. Or just because ONE person in the city worships false gods, which is sort of the part that kills our entire population. The list is long. I find it very scary that so many people worship a God like that.